pmag bolt catch problem pmag bolt catch problem

Maybe it's raising it too much, but a locked bolt is a locked bolt. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. Similar occurences? But with firearms, there really is seldom a one size fits all option for, well, anything. How is it though that my. They are not as likely to happen with premium ammo yet the chance is still there. These two pics right here, and the height difference. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Just did this, no difference. NEW PRICING: All products have been reduced 10%! *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Its best to identify these two common issues with your rifle, before attempting to diagnose problems with your magazines. Operation of an AR-15 without the receivers / action fully closed may result in serious injuries or death. Definitely try another couple magazines, including one from another manufacturer. The bolt catch rides up but not on the black polymer part of the mag, but the follower. .661 from top of receiver to top of mag catch inside magwell. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 6 (not figure 5). How do I make the install permanent for use in states such as. If so, it might be worth trying another batch of pmags in case it's just a mold variation. The Fix: 1.) Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more. As weird as this will sound, you need to measure the length of your recoil buffer, and the internal depth of your buffer tube and post it here in addition to the excellent info already provided. It knows when youre cheating..like Santa. Because both symptoms exist, it seems that the components within each receiver may be too far from each other which leads me to suspect that the interface between the upper or lower is too thick. i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Can anyone offer insight to the cause of or solution to these problems? This is. I'll try and grab my camera. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Next up is damage to the SCAR. Really appreciate your thorough pictures provided, that's an excellent way to provide data on your issues. A forum community dedicated to FN Herstal firearm owners and enthusiasts. The bolt catch on the AR platform is directly in the center of the mag, so the shape of the notch doesn't matter on the AR, but on the SCAR, the bolt catch is offset slightly to the left. 11: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release hole = 0.692. Hope this helps. I do need to know the correct distance of the top of the mag catch to the top of the lower as in figure 10 by using a depth gauge. Let every feeble rumor shake your hearts! I just don't know why my friend has witness marks on his pmags after use in my Scar 16s. I didn't include that aspectbecause the bolt easily clears the bolt catch (figure 4) so I didn't want to throw in a red herring andconfuse the issue. Close the receivers back together and re-engage the rear takedown pin. The mags cause the bolt catch to rise ever . I liken this to a person who lives in an urban area with an office job, assuming that nobody needs anything more than a Toyota Camry, while overlooking the fact that some people need things such as towing capacity, off-road capability, or more seats for a larger family. New firearms are designed around common Colt-pattern mags, and Magpul has to keep accommodating new designs with generational changes, or new offerings altogether, like they did with the EMAG. The mag on the left is the metal 10 round mag, the two to the right are Pmags. The max difference is 0.030".The real problem is where the mag catch hole is in the lower. Also if you rest your gun on the mag when you shoot (by the way don't do this) it will shove most mags including FN factory ones. Pasted as rich text. There were no ammunition-related issues during the review. I sent an email toDaytona Tactical support telling that themagazine catch hole is0.049 too low compared to others I've seen drawings of and am awaiting their response. Gonna remove the anodizing, but making omelets requires the breaking of eggs; so. This can cause partial engagement of the bolt catch and result in unintentional contact between the bolt carrier group and the bolt catch during normal weapon operation. Would anyone be willing to measure and report their heights from the top of the lower to the top of a cartridge case head? By I sanded the top rib along the back wall of the mag near the feed and the feed itself and problem seems to have resolved. i have my pmags and i am just noticing a problemtried it out on 3 seperate lowers all of them have the same problem: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/derek45/AR/IMGP5612.jpg, the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty. Depending on the rear takedown pin you are using either pull the pin (Tacticool pin) or actuate the pin to disengage the receivers (KingPin & Hyperswitch). To my knowledge, no PMAGs will work in the FS-2000 to this day without modification. Yours is 0.6640" for a difference of 0.028" which isn't as much as I expected based on drawings which is 0.049". The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the bolt catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. It's a whole lot of details. This clearance is partially determined by the use of aLuth-AR .308 rifle buffer tube, spring, and weight [https://www.luth-ar.com/product/buffer-tube-spring-assembly-kit-308/]. I get asked a lot why, in almost all of my reviews or videos, I use good old-fashioned U.S. GI steel magazines in lieu of Magpul PMAGs, a popular alternative that most shooters these days are familiar with. Excellent work with the pics and details. #5. What measurements do you have on your lower? How can I make my rifle more reliable with PMags? If so, it would cause both symptoms. Not a back-breaking amount, mind you, but not insignificant. I have about 15 Amend 2 mags, but that's out of 20 because 5 of them wouldn't drop out of the mag well by themselves. I included a pic of the mag fully inserted, then a mag with the follower pushed down to the point of where the bolt catch stays flat. I could not find it for a few days so I checked it. Insert the steel DPMS mag and lock the bolt back and look through the ejection port and note how much of the bolt face the bolt catch covers. You must log in or register to reply here. You are using an out of date browser. and might have several still in the packaging. Thanks for this HC, I'm going to inspect my Gen 3's to see if mine have the same witness marks. For me it's almost all gen 2 P mags. I am having no problems with Gen 2 or Gen 3 Pmags in a variety of lowers using mil-spec mag and bolt catches, which are also from a variety of suppliers. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - Bolt Catch issues w/ Pmags + few questions, https://www.triggershims.com/ar_15_shims.html. After installation of the ARMagLock the button is. Loading magazines at home means more shooting time at the range. Hey, everyone. Im almost through with my build, however I have noticed that my Seekins enhanced Bolt Catch in my Anderson lower is not locking back on PMags like it does on my aluminum and steel magazines. The table shows the measurements of several magazines and the left or right cartridge. Depth of the hole? When someone mentions must-have magazines for the AR platform, many shooters immediately think of Pmag Vs Hexmag. I was curious about how other magazines behaved in the lower so I measured them to simply verify reasonable consistency. The gun will feed rounds from the PMAGs no problem. I deepened the hole to 0.480. This is one of my pistols. That should fix it. Indeed, if could be too low, and we have a HELL of a thread here on that very issue. What changed? Problems I have run into in the past include, firstly, that they wont drop free in a lot of firearms. Thanks shooterrex. That might give a more consistent measurement between yours and mine. Iiiiffffff I owned one of those evil black rifles , I might buy the Hexmag brand when they went on sale for $6.95 ea. :??? Think it could be magazine springs? We are all guilty of doing this, in one way or another. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. I find it interesting that in the "Bolt Catch Issues" section of the article, they mention that if the gun's bolt-catch fails to operate properly, instead of simply checking other mags, their first-line troubleshooting is to check the critical dimensions . If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, I'll test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The bolt can still be removed by grinding but will no longer be usable. Has anyone seen this? and our Just checked all of mine, I'm not sure how HC's ended up with a witness mark where it's at. edit: i just got them. Why not just ditch the PMags? Checking mine now! The bolt catch problem can be solved by drilling the plunger hole deeper but Id first like to solve the feed problem. One new winner* is announced every week! It isnt that they are bad (in fact they feed and run very well in certain firearms) but in my years of shooting I have simply found that other products may better suit a myriad of shooters. Here's a photo showing the mags. Coil bind on the spring? the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. For more information, please see our Special thanks to Ventura Munitions for helping us out with the cost of ammo, and a special thank you to you all for watching. It was initially 0.323 deep. So, I marked it and I'm gonna keep running it through to see if it happens anymore. Privacy Policy. The issue is with bolt lock back. Powered by Invision Community, Problems with failure to feed AND failure to catch bolt. This will allow for easy removal of the magazine . I picked up a SCAR 16s last week and put 50 rounds through it with no problems at all (using the FN mag). I'll have to get measurements later. I deepened the hole to 0.480. We have also seen similar malfunctions in a sandy environment using military spec ammo with a dirty, gummed up weapon. I've heard of Issues with Pmags and ARs due to Pmags having more material on the rear of the mag, creating more distance between the follower and the Bolt Catch tooth which isn't as far with USGI mags, and wondering if it is that, plus tolerance stacking being my Catch has so much wiggle room on the Standard M&P. When the PMAG 20LR is inserted into the magazine well, some MWS rifles exhibit interference between the bolt catch and the rear of the magazine. Problem: 30 round Pmag follower doesn't catch on the front lip of the bolt catch. Here's a pic of the wear on the bolt catch caused by this: Here's the OEM mag (left) compared to the PMAG (right). I actually just noticed this issue on my Colt 6920 with Magpul M2 PMAGS. Talyn said: Pmag VS Hexmag. I'd like to get measurements with lowers that did not start as an 80% because there have been reports of80% lowers having the same problem as mine. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Note here that this PMAG will not insert into this civilian version of the HK-416, due to the odd body geometry. I have both just to keep ammo separated. I recently bought 3 for my acr and when comparing it to the other mags i have for it, it seems the internal part does not come up high enough to lift the bolt catch. We STRONGLY encourage all users to ONLY run premium ammunition through their firearm at all times. Try manually locking it back a dozen or so times then checking for any wear streaks on the top of the magazine feed lips. It is tight getting the depth gauge to the lower so the caliper may need to be slightly rotated but not in a direction that will affect the height measurement. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. The ones I used were my friends and I checked the bolt catch before I shot. All it takes is one out of spec cartridge that the extractor fails to grab leaving the cartridge behind in the chamber, going back then forward and pushing a fresh round against the cartridge left behind and you have the dreaded double feed where everything locks up. Note the different rear opening. IMHO, I would get a USGI / high / known quality bolt catch and try one of those. When I release the bolt, the back end of the follower is sticking up, and the bolt will strip the follower right out of the top of the magazine if I let it go. Before that would be a solution - you need tocheck how much further into the upper receiver that your magazine will go. The mag doesn't need to come up so far as to cause this condition but the bolt catch tooth begins at the center of the follower then teeters towardthe edge until it drops off. Sorry, I see the bolt is hitting the follower i could not see that at first.. Not sure if I understand the problem correctly, but I thought the bolt catch is SUPPOSED to ride up on the follower? That said, there is a reason that there are generations of these magazines. This will severly damage your bolt group over time. No need to answer that last question. Today I had some last shot hold open issues while using 20 round P-mags. The problem is pretty simple, the magazine's follower is failing to raise the bolt catch. UPDATE: after tinkering with it, Ive noticed it only happens on 30 round mags. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem - YouTube 0:00 / 7:05 Magpul Pmag Bolt Hold Open Problem It's A Gun Thing 24 subscribers Subscribe 143 16K views 3 years ago Does your bolt on a. First and foremost, I will readily acknowledge that PMAGs are a great magazine. Take off your upper receiver, throw in that empty mag. I read your post twice, I still don't see the malfunction. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine release = 0.696, Fig. This is not the case with PMAGs in many platforms. In total, I (and friends) fired about 1,200 rounds in this review, 1,000 PMC .223 55-grain, about 200 reloads (a mix of 77- and 75-grain), and 20 rounds of Tula steel case at the very end. Press the AR MAGLOCK magazine release button. the tip of the bolt catch that is supposed to be actuated by the back end of the magazine follower is missing the follower and end up not catching the bolt once the mag is empty i have a gen 3 pmag without the window and its kind of frustrating. Does your caliper also have a depth gauge that can get the internal depth to the mag catch as in figure 10? After depletion of your 10 round magazine, you must hit the bolt catch release to bring the bolt 'home'. I can manually push the catch tab in to raise the catch higher. The plunger hole on this 80% lower was supposed to have already been finished. If that's what the bolt catch is suppossed to look like then my mags are a lil out of spec when inserted into the lower. I don't know if this is an indication of another problem being that the bolt catch is too far left. Try tightening the mag catch an extra turn. My Colt LE6920 bolt is not locking back when the last round is fired nor when I insert an empty magpul pmag magazine. As soon as my wife lifts our household arms embargo, I will have one. If your upper and lower receivers are MIL-SPEC the ARMagLock will work. Scan this QR code to download the app now. I have a DPMS pattern LR-308 under construction that has a failure to feed and fails to catch the bolt on an empty magazine. I ordered 10 mags from brownells after I saw they didn't ride the bolt up. Upload or insert images from URL. https://www.cdnnsports.com/catalogsearch/result/?order=relevance&dir=desc&q=Sig+bolt+catch. I wish I could edit the original post to correct this. Additionally, unsafe and unintended methods of operation of the FIREARM may also cause non-compliance. Ok, so I have searched the hide and my googlefu is actin a fool like my pmags You must log in or register to reply here. Mag still wobbles the same and the error still remains. The main concern is the failure to feed. So, for people who only have AR-15s and only shoot AR-15s, its easy to get tunnel vision and just assume that PMAGs are the greatest, and the end-all, be-all answer for all shooters, while overlooking the needs of other people. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! I will lock back, but requires a strong pull, instead of the gentle slide fully to the rear with aluminum or steel. New production Colt-pattern U.S. GI mags are four to five dollars cheaper than generation three PMAGs. : "Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.". check out the. I have a substantial cache of PMAGs, I already performed the PMAG mod by cutting the back of the mag so the bolt catch wont activate. The edit feature will become available to you with just a few more posts on the forum. While the weight difference may not seem like much to a civilian shooter who packs up his shiny, clean competition rifle into his Pelican case and totes it to and from the range in the family truckster, you hear about things like guys cutting toothbrushes in half to save weight in the military. Morality is nothing more than expressions of people's personal taste/ Right? 6: Bolt catch fully extended = 0.359, Fig. If someone can answer that, I'd appreciate it. For me I had to shave off small pieces of the mag to make the bolt catch itself latch. Of course, this is just my opinion, based on my personal experiences, and your mileage may vary. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. JavaScript is disabled. What the problem is: The lip on the un-fixed P-mag pushes the mag release/Bolt catch bar up just enough to catch the bolt group, but not enough to stop it. I suspect yours will be higher than mine. I started construction with the lower at 80%. It did. Not trying to be a dick, but can you summarize in one sentence what the rifle is NOT doing? The Magpul PMAG is a great, well designed magazine that many people like and use in various rifles around the world, but over the years I have discovered that they are not the best option for me personally. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. I used a digital caliper depth gauge as shown in the picture. The BC looks the same so this is a non issue. His problem is that the front tab of the bolt catch is not engaging on the follower of the PMAG, so the bolt won't hold open on the last round. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. "And here remain with your uncertainty! Suggestions? Thanks for the reply. Sounds like the pmag is riding a little high and rubbing the bottom of the carrier a bit. It was initially 0.323 deep. I had that issue with a couple Lancer mags, ended up replacing that bolt catch when it broke with a Sig 716 bolt catch and now the one Lancer mag I saved that had the issue works in that rifle. Then collapse that spring ON the plunger, to coil bind, and measure the OAL of both (with spring in coil bind). NEVER attempt to cycle the bolt carrier group (manually or otherwise) or fire a round with the action open (receivers separated), as this may cause serious injury or death AND potentially make your rifle non-compliant with laws and regulations! Measure the depth of the hole, first. Fig. One new winner* is announced every week! The plunger hole was too shallow but even after deepening it, the catch still isn't pushedup high enough because the magazine follower is too low. But if you're having this problem just take the flat of a knife blade and, holding the blade perpendicular to the magazine body, scrape a little bit of the plastic away until your bolt latch has free travel. If the solution to the feed problem involves a modification to the upper or lower, Ill test the bolt catch and take another measurement as shown in figure 5. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. /r/ar15 is here for your favorite black gun links, build pics, questions and other tactical or practical information. My fix was with Gen2 pmags. However, when using the CH to keep the BCG to the rear, the follower can slip past the bolt catch when slammed into the magwell or when jarred or shaken significantly after insertion. To clear, get the bolt to move back by removing the floor plate of the magazine, remove the spring and follower followed by the rounds in the magazine and the 2nd round should drop out. My external measurement as shown in figure 11 is the top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch hole which is 0.692. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isnt present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. Copyright © 308AR.com 2023 P-Mag Follower and Bolt Catch Engagement *Issue Resolved! Not up on the 80% stuff myself but we have a thread with lots of different brand bolt catches and the dimensions that may help on that end, please add to it if you have something not listed there. You cannot paste images directly. My solution is to raise the bottom rear edge of the mag well by approximately 1mm to 1.5mm. It's brand new so it couldn't be anything crazy like the gas block. If you experience this issue, make sure your lower is within spec, and your bolt catch is installed correctly and not worn down. Lastly, not only are PMAGs more expensive than the alternative, but also heavier. I too have seen issues with PMag followers. Like you hear military folk say, Ounces equal pounds. And in the case of the PMAG, a full loadout saves the user a bit of weight. Pmags have worked fine in the past. At the moment just keep posting as usual, the edit feature will become available. AR platform is new to me, and I hope I don't upset anyone here because I am a noob when it comes to ARs. Note: Firearm will not retain magazines until a replacement magazine catch solution is re-installed. I inspected my mags after I received my order and that's when I saw the bolt catch was up and went wtf face palm*. Fig. Paste as plain text instead, Is it the length of the plunger? With the mag catch removed, a mag can be inserted so far into the mag well that the follower moves upward beyond the point where it can lift the bolt catch. NEVER use this product outside the standard method of operation as it will cause the rifle to no longer be in compliance and you risk arrest. Seen here is a few examples of when a PMAG has to be manually removed: a problem that isn't present most of the time with plain old aluminum magazines. 80% ar-10 bolt jammed m5e1 pmag stuck 1 2 Next Mk3Mstr6Mchne0 Atlington, Washington Messages 12 Reactions 28 Apr 30, 2019 #1 this is kind of hard to explain, I am also pretty experienced with the AR platform, my M5e1 upper is assembled on an 80% lower. His mags didn't ride the bolt catch up so we tried them out. 10: Top of lower receiver to top of magazine catch = 0.696, Fig. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. Also, since the follower rides too high the pmags I used made a dent in the follower from the bolt. Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. The upper, lower, and jig are from Daytona Tactical d.b.a. Fig. Could use some advice, being this is a problem on MANY ARs, not just the M&P's. I don't and I didn't . honest. The plunger and compressed spring are 0.490. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. PMAG Problems Centerfire Rifles - Semiautomatic or Gas Operated I'm sure someone here can find that thread on the mag catch heights. It's not the bolt catch, itself, obviously. Using PMAGs can actually do irreparable damage to an FN SCAR rifle. Hexmag for 260rem and pmag for 6.5creed. All Rights Reserved. I personally dont see why I would spend an extra five bucks for magazines that wont drop free in all my guns, may or may not be compatible with new and upcoming guns, and my next point: wont fit in all my guns. Very carefully and pay attention to how the bolt catch actually works, if you did you should figured it out almost immediately. 7: Bolt catch fully extended, plunger removed = 0.443, Fig. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Founded by Frank Galli in 2000, Snipers Hide has been offering informational videos, podcasts, and other support to its users in one location. The metal Mag that came with my Stag worked fine however. That one issue, right there, because in the previous pics, that bolt catch isn't sticking up enough to reliably get that bolt face every time. Personally I wouldn't shoot it until you've got this issue corrected. picture patrick swayze son,